we'll see how the next debates go. they're certainly looming ahead. >> we were talking about president obama in his speech last night he says he won't negotiate those. the republicans can still hold this up in the house. >> i think it's kind of what grounds -- where the battle lines will be drawn. i think what the president says, i don't want to negotiate or don't think the deficit reduction or extending the debt ceiling is the proper policy tool to negotiate spending cuts. where the fundamental difference is here is the size and scope of government. i think the president has to come forward with some spending cuts, hopefully finding middle ground. i think we've seen some steps on the tax fronts. chairman camp was right on that regard. i hope we don't get back into the debt ceiling debate although we may. >> when is that supposed to happen if not in this nerkt rou -- next round of negotiations on the debt ceiling. >> you have the sequester two months ahead and clearly kicked the can down the road. you have a lot of win